Spotlight on Alan Moore's The Killing Joke

BoboTheChimp wrote: ↑

2:37 AM - 11 days ago

The Wizard of Oz rocks! As does Return to Oz. No one should ever grow out of Oz!

Agreed - but it remains squarely and clearly an 'adventure story for children'..

BoboTheChimp wrote: ↑

2:37 AM - 11 days ago

I'm referring to the concept of writers like Ennis, King and Moore who take characters intended for adventure stories for imaginative 8 - 12 year olds, characters who dress up like animals and circus strongmen in skintight costumes to fight crime and try to force these characters into dark, gritty, cynical stories that "speak to the human condition". I mean, that's just silly.

I understand your point - it's been made many times (perhaps most vocally by the best writer on that short list) - but I think it's wrongheaded as a statement. It's certainly applicable to SOME stories, but it shouldn't be said to apply to the very broad concept that would include Swamp Thing and Watchmen alongside lesser fare.

There is no reason that ANY story (style, genre, age-range) could not comment on the human condition or be as (non)cynical as any other work of literature and have ageless merit and value.

BoboTheChimp wrote: ↑

2:37 AM - 11 days ago

And sophomoric. I can't think of a better description for the super hero stories of Ennis, King and Moore than "pretentious and juvenile". 

I can certainly understand why people might apply that description to (much of) Ennis' work, as he does (appear to) lean very much into the teenage fascination of violence and crudeness for its own sake, epitomizing 'sophomoric' humor.. but even there, I think there's depth and worth in the stories and emotions that undercut and are juxtaposed with such moments. (And, while I rocognize your focus is on superheroes-for-NOTchildren, his war stories in particular are largely the very antithesis of juvenile.)

For King, I haven't read enough of his work to get a good feeling for the broad trends, but I get the feeling he see-saws and does do better without traditional superheroics - but I don't see "juvenile". Maybe pretensions, but no more than any writer trying to demonstrate their skill and invariably falling short of the High Water Mark set by..

Alan Moore. Can you point to tales or elements you might consider "pretensious" or "juvenile" in his work? "Sophomoric", "silly"...? Sans specifics, I would disagree hard - and furthermore would use his works to deny your central premise. It is possible to use 'childish' characters to tell 'adult' stories. It is possible to comment on reality through the lens of fiction, any fiction, and Moore (and maybe King) provides dozens of examples of exactly how it can be done, and done well.

BoboTheChimp wrote: ↑

2:37 AM - 11 days ago

Personally, I think folks of all ages should read more A.A. Milne.

Absolutely! Another great example of stories that can genuinely be enjoyed by all ages on a dozen levels - some perhaps unintentional - and where meaning can shift as one gains a better grasp on life and has changes in outlook. Calvin and Hobbes is another good one.

statistics: Posted by ntnonII — 8:05 AM - 11 days ago — Replies 291 — Views 211

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